Curse

cebalrai · Apr 06, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

I just emptied 'Flame Temple Corridor' a few times soloing on my ranger in Normal Mode and found that over 90% of kills dropped either gold (money) or a white item, so I wonder if LS affects every map? Admittedly, it is a small map, but still I was pleasantly surprised. This was excluding the party drops that we are currently getting.

So you're saying you still make money even with LS? It can't be!!!

mr_groovy · Apr 06, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

I just emptied 'Flame Temple Corridor' a few times soloing on my ranger in Normal Mode and found that over 90% of kills dropped either gold (money) or a white item, so I wonder if LS affects every map? Admittedly, it is a small map, but still I was pleasantly surprised. This was excluding the party drops that we are currently getting.

That's a 4/4 map >.>

Phineas · Apr 06, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

That's a 4/4 map >.>

So you would expect to see only 25% of mobs dropping items for a solo run? Not 90+% ? Please can you explain why the high drop rate makes a difference for a 4/4 map?

Is it more likely because of the low gold value of the drops?

ogre_jd · Apr 06, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

I just emptied 'Flame Temple Corridor' a few times soloing on my ranger in Normal Mode and found that over 90% of kills dropped either gold (money) or a white item, so I wonder if LS affects every map? Admittedly, it is a small map, but still I was pleasantly surprised. This was excluding the party drops that we are currently getting.

I've experienced the same thing whenever I'm in an area I'm able to solo, regardless of what point of the game I'm at: far more loot (of all types) when I solo than when I go through the area with a full party.

The Pockmark Flats, for example: my E/Mo soloed, cleared out the passage from Serenity to the crater, then cleared the crater, and came away with at least 15 lodestones, not to mention a ton of whites (used up maybe 35 salvage charges).

My Me/E went through there a couple of days later for the same reason, but with a full party of henches, and got *2* lodestones for his trouble, and maybe 10 whites. Took them almost a half-hour of farming to get the 3rd lodestone needed for the 2nd geomancer quest...

And just yesterday my W/R soloed the Flame Temple Corridor (a popular spot, it seems :P) and used up 2 full salvage kits and the better part of a 3rd to get rid of all the whites.

Frankly, if this is what solo farming with loot scaling is like, solo farming without loot scaling must've been insanely profitable - and, frankly, makes me more certain than ever that loot scaling needs to stay.

EDIT: Hmm. Without clearing the top of the ziggurat in the FTC (didn't yesterday as well), I just got an ISV weapon, 94 common materials and 20 carvings (plus 15 party favors and 3 cheap dyes). Not too bad for soloing.

Fay Vert · Apr 06, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

All the evidence? It's just your OPINION that the "evidence" isn't good enough. For others it is. And you're just one schlep with an opinion just like everyone else. Some folks (such as Anet developers) are of the opinion that the reasons to keep LS are good enough.

Do you deny that prices fell consistantly during the period before the loot nerf? Every time a new item is introduced into the game,the initial price is high and then if falls, it never goes up, it falls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

Your rant that your opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong, is illogical bunk. And that's what it boils down to - opinion. Your righteousness makes you look really bad. You are utterly confused.

I am basing my point of view on facts, not opinion or projection, we know what will happen without the loot nerf, we had two very fine years of GW without it. It is not I making hystirical claims about run away inflation and extreme pricing when ALL the evicence proves that will not happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

Besides, Anet said that solo farming was nerfed because it was a phenomenon that was never supposed to exist. So no mater what you say, EVER, about economy, etc, this FACT will CUT RIGHT THROUGH any argument you or anyone else makes for the removal of loot scaling.

EVER.

Actually no, wrong again, ANet "claimed" that they wanted to support farming, please read the dev notes before coming out with such rubbish to base your flawed opinions on, your FACTs are WRONG! ANet have repeately claimed to support farming as a valid playstyle in the game to say it was never supposed to happen is just silly. Let me help you, all quoted from the ANet dev release, there are numerous other places where similar messages are posted by ANet.

From Gaile news posted in variou splaces 20th/21st April 2007:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

...ArenaNet tries to keep the game fun for everyone while still providing fun and rewarding play for solo farmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

But we still wanted solo farmers to have an edge, ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

We want players who enjoy solo farming to have a wide variety of things that they can enjoy farming.

So you see, this does not cut through any of my arguments, but it does make yours look utterly ridiculous

tmakinen · Apr 06, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I explained the LS mechanism a couple of pages ago. Rate of killing and merchant value of drops affects LS so if you're soloing starter areas in NM you'll be getting most of the drops - all drops if you observe certain guidelines. Reduced party size helps as well.

Phineas · Apr 06, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

I explained the LS mechanism a couple of pages ago. Rate of killing and merchant value of drops affects LS so if you're soloing starter areas in NM you'll be getting most of the drops - all drops if you observe certain guidelines. Reduced party size helps as well.

Have you managed to go as far as determining how much gold you are likely to get in a given map? That would be the merchant value of the drops and the total value of all gold money dropped.

Just curious.

Cab Tastic · Apr 06, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

There's no need to.
You gave us the reason. You just don't see it.

Remember: all the truth is in Queens lyrics: "Just open your eyes and see" (from Bohemian Rhapsody)

Come on. you can do better than that. Its easy to come back with generalities. Lets have some evidence.

MithranArkanere · Apr 06, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

Come on. you can do better than that. Its easy to come back with generalities. Lets have some evidence.

I told you. Evidence has been given. Plenty of it.
If someone just keep saying that there is no evidence, we go back to the lyrics:
"Just open your eyes and see".

The matter is over. Nothing else can be done if you refuse to see, and when you see, there will be no need to do anything else.

wilderness · Apr 06, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

All throughout history the ignorant have always never "seen the negatives or the whys". That's why we have devs, people who know what they are doing and why. <grin>

Again, a nice 'witty' response with no actual reasoning.

What are the truly game breaking negative connotations of life without LS?

You seem to like acting the smart-arse, so how about something to back up that front?

cebalrai · Apr 06, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Do you deny that prices fell consistantly during the period before the loot nerf? Every time a new item is introduced into the game,the initial price is high and then if falls, it never goes up, it falls.

I am basing my point of view on facts, not opinion or projection, we know what will happen without the loot nerf, we had two very fine years of GW without it. It is not I making hystirical claims about run away inflation and extreme pricing when ALL the evicence proves that will not happen.

Actually no, wrong again, ANet "claimed" that they wanted to support farming, please read the dev notes before coming out with such rubbish to base your flawed opinions on, your FACTs are WRONG! ANet have repeately claimed to support farming as a valid playstyle in the game to say it was never supposed to happen is just silly. Let me help you, all quoted from the ANet dev release, there are numerous other places where similar messages are posted by ANet.

Anet decided to still allow solo farming in a more limited fashion. So they still support it. It's a nice compromise.

Regarding inflation, yes, if money in injected into the economy at an increased rate, inflation is the inevitable consequence.

You're looking at inflation backwards, from a demand perspective. Demand fluctuates based on a number of things. However, when there's a lot more money to go around, things will cost more, thus inflation.

Economics 101.

Cab Tastic · Apr 06, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I told you. Evidence has been given. Plenty of it.
If someone just keep saying that there is no evidence, we go back to the lyrics:
"Just open your eyes and see".

The matter is over. Nothing else can be done if you refuse to see, and when you see, there will be no need to do anything else.

This is getting really silly.

anti LS give plenty of evidence to support the removal of said LS. i.e. inflation never existing

pro LS: your wrong, so there!

Cab Tastic · Apr 06, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

Anet decided to still allow solo farming in a more limited fashion. So they still support it. It's a nice compromise.

Regarding inflation, yes, if money in injected into the economy at an increased rate, inflation is the inevitable consequence.

You're looking at inflation backwards, from a demand perspective. Demand fluctuates based on a number of things. However, when there's a lot more money to go around, things will cost more, thus inflation.

Economics 101.

No it won't. The supply of 99% of most items in this game so overwhelmingly outstrips demand that prices will fall no matter if players farm occasionally or not. The evidence for this is all around you. Go to Kamadan and look at the trading window. Do a tally of WTS vs WTB.

DivineEnvoy · Apr 06, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Cab Tastic: Do you even know what is an inflation?

Cab Tastic · Apr 06, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Cab Tastic: Do you even know what is an inflation?

Please enlighten me.....

I have an A Level (UK qualification) in Economics. But do go ahead...

DivineEnvoy · Apr 06, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Inflation is a rise in the general nominal level of prices over time. It may also refer to a rise in the prices of a specific set of goods or services. In either case, it is measured as the percentage rate of change of a price index.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

This is getting really silly.

anti LS give plenty of evidence to support the removal of said LS. i.e. inflation never existing

pro LS: your wrong, so there!

Here's a counter argument. This is the situation we had before the implementation of loot scaling. How is this not a case of inflation?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10273477

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

No it won't. The supply of 99% of most items in this game so overwhelmingly outstrips demand that prices will fall no matter if players farm occasionally or not. The evidence for this is all around you. Go to Kamadan and look at the trading window. Do a tally of WTS vs WTB.

Let's assume the supply to be large and fixed as you described there, although we have yet to determine whether it is true or not.
Consider this counter argument:
Before the removal of loot scaling, person A only has 200k in his storage, and when he's about to buy a green item, he wishes to pay 20k for it. After 30 minutes, no one sells him the green item, so he just waits a bit longer to find the seller. Of course, he can't rise his price, because he doesn't have as much money to waste in such manner.
After the removal of loot scaling, person A now have 600k in his storage, and when he's about to buy a green item, he wishes to pay 20k for it. After 30 minutes, no one sells him the green item, so he rises his price upto 60k to attract sellers.
With the addition amount of gold being shoved into the market, despite how large the supply factor is, prices for items will still increase simply because people want to get their purchases as quick as possible. And how is this not a case of inflation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

Please enlighten me.....

I have an A Level (UK qualification) in Economics. But do go ahead...

An appeal to authority or argument by authority is a type of argument in logic consisting on basing the truth value of an assertion on the authority, knowledge, expertise, or position of the person asserting it. It is also known as argument from authority, argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect) or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it). It is one method of obtaining propositional knowledge, but a fallacy in regard to logic, because the validity of a claim does not follow from the credibility of the source. The corresponding reverse case would be an ad hominem attack: to imply that the claim is false because the asserter lacks authority or is otherwise objectionable in some way.

I know you would like to flash your achievements here and there, but I would really appreciate a non-fallacious argument.

Malice Black · Apr 06, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

A level isn't a degree. It's fairly worthless if true be told. Just makes people CV prettier for college applications.

DivineEnvoy · Apr 06, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

A level isn't a degree. It's fairly worthless if true be told. Just makes people CV prettier for college applications.

I'm going apologize for assuming a level to be a degree previously. I thought people would only show off their credibility in education from real life when they have at least a degree from a university.

Fril Estelin · Apr 06, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

I'm going apologize for assuming a level to be a degree previously. I thought people would only show off their credibility in education from real life when they have at least a degree from a university.

A level is the examination you pass before entrance to university in the UK. It's not worth a lot due to the decrease in requirements from curriculum during the last few decades (but that's not the fault of students!).

manitoba1073 · Apr 06, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Its even funnier that people are claiming inflation in a Flea Market styled economy. GW has 2 seperate economies.